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Is Exposing Your Food Like Exposing Your Privates?

One of my friends said to me that my food blog was upsetting her. “I think what we eat is really private!” she said. “And political! I would never show people what I eat.” (or some such thing. I am paraphrasing) This intrigued me. “What do you mean by political?” I asked.

“I would be afraid that people would judge me, for going out to eat too much, for not cooking enough or whatever.” This was fascinating to me. Of course people could certainly judge ME for going out to eat too much because I do it like every five minutes, but that’s not the kind of judgement that I care about or that worries me.

I have been guilty and embarrassed and ashamed of various food I’ve eaten for years decades, but not for political reasons. For deeply personal reasons. I think now, how I would feel if someone had pulled a camera on me when I sat in my car eating a pint of macaroni and cheese or chocolate pudding or one of my other comfort/binge foods. I would have died a million deaths. So for me, it is incredibly empowering to be exposing/outing myself and my food. And to shed light on it is one of the most amazing things I have ever done.

Mary said to me that food blogging basically eliminated most of her mindless and compulsive eating, which pretty much made my eyes bug out of my head. And which made me want to try to do this. So far, I have to say, it’s been an incredible experience. I’m learning so much about myself.

For someone who spent so much of my psychic life eating in a closet, this is really HUGE.

I’m finding that photographing my food is almost like a prayer, a little premeal ritual, and almost like meditation. It is deeply contemplatative. I think about my food, consider it from angle, think about if I do want to eat it, how much I want, etc. I want it to look good. I want to feel committed to it. Believe me, this is something I did not used to do. Often I would almost eat with my eyes closed because I would not want to see what I was doing.

It’s only been four days. But I’ve gotta say, it’s changing me. And I’m not embarrassed.

Showing My Food

Skinny Cow ice cream sandwich

Wow. Second day of food blogging over at What Foodie Eats. (pleeeeease come visit me there!) What a trip it’s been! Already I feel a change in how I approach food. Every morsel I eat is photographed BEFORE I eat it. It’s a totally visual (and different) version of Weight Watchers, “If you bite it, write it!” Because often we track (writing) AFTER we eat. In this method, the tracking HAS to happen before the eating. Every time. Which makes a huge difference. It’s making me slow way way down, and become very deliberate and thoughtful about what I eat.

And talk about accountability. Wow. Wow wow! I feel like this truly does take tracking to a whole ‘nother level. It’s one thing to write things down, or “try to” as I often do. It’s another thing to take pictures of all your food. And another thing to put it out on the internet. How about you? Would you be willing to show the world everything you eat?

I’m learning so much.

Yes, Virginia, You Can Eat Cupcakes on Weight Watchers!

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So today was a great day. TODAY was the Goalaversary of my WW BFF, Bethany. And as our celebration for today we agreed to meet at the Cupkates truck, which by miraculous coincidence happened to be parking one block away from my office at lunchtime! Normally this is my big busy work day and I only have a short time at midday.

We were very excited about this plan. We both love cupcakes. And I loved that we, as two dedicated WW leaders (she for THREE YEARS at goal, me at one year) could enjoy this treat to the utmost. Proving once again that Weight Watchers is about living and not dieting.

I also had my diabetes to contend with, so I made a point of testing my blood right in front of the truck. It was a good number. I got there a few minutes after the truck and already there was a long line. Word had spread (through Twitter and Facebook!) and there was already quite a line.

This was actually good because it gave us a chance to study the menu and ponder what we would pick. Although it wasn’t a super hard choice for me. I knew  I wanted Salted Caramel. Bethany picked S’mores. In the end I decided to buy one of each and bring them back to the office to share with my co-workers.  They’re not what you would call a partying bunch of folks so I knew it would be a big surprise.

Finally it was our turn. We were so excited! We got to meet CupKate herself, who not only is happy and cute (does she not have the world’s BEST JOB? Driving around selling cupcakes to people, and making them awesomely happy??), but she was wearing this adorable CupKates hoodie which I am now madly coveting.

We got our cupcakes and then went to sit in my building’s lobby to enjoy them. And ENJOY WE DID. First we gazed lovingly at each cupcake. We affirmed our personal choices and then we… ate them! (for the record, I ate half of mine, mostly because I was concerned re the sugar) They were…. AMAZING. DELICIOUS. MOIST. HEAVENLY. INCREDIBLE. Yeah. Definitely the best cupcake I had ever eaten. Totally worth the 4 points I’m assuming it was (for half the cupcake).

SO SO GOOD.

Happily, my blood sugar had started out so low, it stayed good even 45 minutes and 2 hours after the cupcake. So that was great. But I started getting reallllllllllllly hungry around 3pm. And I had no food. BOY did I want protein. But I had to go lead my WW meeting. Did not get out until almost 8, at which point I was not a happy camper, hungerwise. (note to self: carry protein!)

I went to the middle Eastern restaurant near my house. I got these ginormous plate of STUFF and immediately snarfed down the hard boiled egg and hummus. Then I picked at the salad and had a little triangle of pita and I was done.

So… the cupcake was fantastic. But it’s not what I would call lunch.

I’m so happy we did this. I really am. Because it was probably the most MINDFUL cupcake eating experience I ever had. I loved loved loved not feeling guilty about one crumb of it. I planned for it. (what I didn’t plan for so well was the rest of the day after that) I savored it. I loved it! And I am not worried that half a cupcake is going to send me over any edge. It didn’t. Happiness all around, yay for cupcakes and yay for us!!

Anatomy of a Wedding Weekend

I knew this weekend would be challenging, but I was not exactly sure how. In looking back on this past few days, I look at the ups and downs, the many small choices and challenges I faced, and what I learned from it.

I went into the weekend feeling I had not much wiggle room to spare. I wanted to come out of it maintaining where I was at before I went in. I’m not going to weigh myself until tomorrow or maybe even the next day.

Friday morning: Got up in the dark to get to the airport. Had coffee. Got to airport and headed straight to Starbucks for my new favorite breakfast, Perfect Oatmeal. It was perfect. Good way to start the day. Got onto plane #1. Slept. I am grateful that not only am I “able” to sleep on planes; in fact, a plane seat hits me like a tranquilizer gun and I immediately pass out into a deep, drooling coma the instant I feel the wheels lift off. I think this has something to do with a period when I was deathly afraid of flying and I literally learned to hypnotize myself into sleep so that I would not freak out. I don’t freak out so much anymore, but I think it’s because I’m passed out.

Layover: Las Vegas airport. We only had 10 minutes before boarding the next flight and I ran around frantically trying to find something suitable for carry-on lunch. Seemed there was nothing but Burger King and chocolates. Finally found a place that sold sandwiches. Whole wheat baguette turkey sandwich. 470 calories. With nothing on it! Blech! But I was desperate. Grabbed it. Ate half of it on plane. It was awful but I was very hungry. Had a packet of Ritz cracker cheese sandwiches courtesy of Southwest, which immediately transported me to my children’s unfortunately unhealthy childhoods, where they and I consumed mass quantities of those things. I am addicted to them.

Arrived at destination.  Went to hotel gym and spent 45 minutes on elliptical! I was so sweaty and proud of myself, especially after having spent all day in vegetative state on airplanes. Went to awesome hotel restaurant and had a wonderful dinner of 2 deviled eggs, a spinach salad from heaven, and a little bowl of polenta and spinach. That would have been quite fine. It would have been perfect if the evening had ended there, but alas, it did not.

Went to post-rehearsal-pre-wedding reception thingie hosted by groom’s parents. LOVELY home, all catered event. At first all I saw was wine and some platters of strawberries, brownies and cannolis. I was full from dinner and not tempted. I took a teeny nibble from my mother’s brownie & cannoli; both were way too sweet and thought, good, I am home free! Big basket of potato chips. Not tempted. THEN they brought out the gourmet cheese tray thing. I faltered a little. Then I got into a conversation with some relatives who asked some very kind but probing questions about the state of my Writing; something I am NOT feeling good or confident or happy about these days, and the cheese dam just broke.  Gorgonzola and Muenster and Brie and baguette slices and some salami rounds and it all just VANISHED into my mouth. I lost my mind. I lost it completely. I actually could not quite believe it, but there it was. Kablooey!

The next morning I woke up with a cheese hangover and….. a severely throbbing ankle. Apparently it had not been super charmed by my killing the elliptical like that, brace or not. I was very sad. I decided not to return to the gym but instead went to  a street arts festival with my sister in law. I walked around for several hours, but at a relatively slow pace. Better than nothing, right? Still, my ankle was throbbing even more after that. I took a very brief trip to the gym and tried to find something that did not make it hurt. I did not find anything. I was sad.

I had another spinach salad. (sooo good) Felt fortified for the wedding. Got dressed. Squeezed self into Spanx and then into dress. Went to wedding. Short and sweet, followed by reception. I resisted all appetizers, including another cheese plate (this cheese was not nearly as good as Friday’s). How did I do this? I constantly texted my WW BFF with the choices that lay before me. I sent some pictures. It was actually easy. If only I’d done that during Friday night’s cheese debacle! I gleefully reported how I passed up some deep fried raviolis in little dishes of marinara. Yay me! The wedding dinner itself proved quite easy: seared tuna and snow peas, which I’d pre-ordered. They came with wasabi mashed potatoes, which I did not eat, because that sounded like a horrid combination. Lucky me. Then the cake!! At first I wasn’t going to eat any. Then a little bit. Then I decided that the dinner had been so healthy I could go ahead and have a piece. It wasn’t a very small piece. Later, in the hotel, I looked it up: 16 points! Sixteen points for carrot cake! If only I’d know. Oh, the power of knowledge. Next time I will use my WW iPhone app and figure this out before I lift fork to mouth. If I’d known, I would have had like two bites. Which would’ve been fine.

People told me to DANCE at the wedding, but I really didn’t. This was the first wedding in which I was of the generation older than the wedding couples, and I felt weirdly old fogeyish, my ankle hurt, and my mother (even older than me) realllllly wanted to get out of the loud loud loud venue and go back to the hotel. So we left when the dancing began.

Oh well.

So, today: more drugged sleep-of-the-dead on the plane. More Ritz crackers. Another missed lunch. I was so happy to get home to beautiful unmuggy weather, I pledged to go out and walk. But I did not. I just…… didn’t.

Thus, the weekend got away from me, and I pulled it back, and it was a tug of war back and forth. I don’t know how to score it overall. An overall failure? Overall victory? No. I’d say it was a learning experience.

As we say at WW, it’s either a losing week or a learning week.

I learned:

  • prepare/bring lunch for plane ahead of time. Go to grocery, bring something from home, whatever. Make like a Girl Scout and be prepared.
  • When in a highly charged emotional situation, TRY to have a moment of consciousness and reach out: Twitter or text a friend who can keep you grounded and away from large quantities of cheese.
  • Look up calories/points values of items BEFORE eating so you can at least make an informed decision. I was assuming the carrot cake was about half what it was.
  • Get out and take a walk before catching up with Facebook and blogs, or you’ll never go.

So… I probably got a C- in the weight loss/maintenance arena, and maybe a B+ for learning. And, it was a lovely weekend, a beautiful wedding and great to see family for a brief little time.

EPILOGUE: I did not get a C-!!!!!! Just weighed myself (Monday morning) and my weight is…. UNCHANGED! to the ounce! from when I left. Which was my goal. It’s a new day! It’s a new week! YAY!!!!

Meet Frank, Kindred Spirit

Remember I mentioned I met this guy Frank at my solo show last week? Well it so happened that a screening of the documentary film about his experience was taking place yesterday. It just so happened that I was able to make it. I was so glad I went.

I started tearing up right away, pretty much at the opening credits. There were a few moments when I was out and out crying. It was terribly moving.

This is the film in a nutshell:

May I Be Frank documents the transformation of Frank Ferrante’s life. He unknowingly stumbles into a local restaurant in San Francisco, Café Gratitude, a raw, organic and vegan café…where he feels welcomed and free from his collapsing personal life. Frank is asked by Ryland, one of the servers, “What is one thing you want to do before you die?” Frank replies, “I want to fall in love one more time, but no one will love me looking the way I do.”

Inspired by the possibility of helping Frank, Ryland invites him to come into the café everyday for the next month. Armed with a camera and a wide open heart, Ryland soon enrolls his brother Cary, and Conor, his best friend, to participate in supporting Frank’s transformation. The final agreement is made that for the next 42 days, Frank will turn his life over to three twenty-something young men committed to his healing and prepared to coach him physically, emotionally and spiritually. Frank will eat only raw food, practice gratitude, visit local holistic practitioners, and get a weekly colonic. Ryland, Conor, and Cary get to support and witness Frank’s miraculous transformation. Frank gets a new body, a clearer mind, and most importantly, a soaring spirit.

The film is pretty much a “Supersize Me” in reverse. I wasn’t sure how they arrived on 42 days for this “experiment,” but he chokes down his wheatgrass shots every day. He eats all his meals at Cafe Gratitude.

Now it’s no secret that I am not a big fan of Cafe Gratitude. I don’t think I will ever be a vegan or ever convert to eating raw food. But I AM grateful to them for what they have done for Frank and probably countless others. And I do not  think I will ever, ever have my colon cleansed. But I am a complete sucker for transformation, and of people having Second Chances, and turning their lives and health all around. I am very interested in forgiveness and in cleaning up one’s relationships in order to clean up one’s overall health. The second installment of my solo show is going to be all about that very topic.

Frank looks like a million bucks now. He’s so healthy looking, and vibrant and athletic. And he’s a blogger! (I was fascinated by his blog post in which he describes feeling objectified for the first time in his life).  I am so happy for him. And it also makes me think about being in this place, of achieving some up-until-now-unachievable goal. Health or a certain clothing size or a number on the scale. Then what? A while back I found myself feeling terrified. That I got to enjoy it for a small period of time but that it was going to be snatched away. (by home? by my own inner troll self that doesn’t WANT me to be healthy OR happy) I could see people gaping at Frank in awe and I was wondering if he ever feels that same terror. That this is just a nice dream and one day he’s gonna wake up to that other life again.

Today I am feeling like my own health and good place is not as tenuous as I feared a few months back. But that’s just today. I wonder if some of this might not be behind my continually striving and pushing that bar up: 5k, marathon, triathlon, WW staff, solo show. What’s next? If I keep doing more and more will I be immune?

No.

So I just have to keep doing what I’m doing, doing what feels right, trying to be mindful every day.  Trying to be gentle with myself.

And in the meantime it feels great to have found yet another kindred spirit on the journey.

Does This Vacation Make Me Look Fat?

I’m home!! I got home from Costa Rica around 1am and if I don’t write a post now, I think it will be weeks before I have time to sit and do it. Things are crazy (again!) just as they were pre-vacation. Tonight is my solo performance show, and next week I begin a brand new job. Whewwwwww. So much for laying back in the slow tempo of Central America – I’m back in the USA again and back to the insane pace of life.

Being on vacation was wonderful, and relaxing, and rejuvenating. But it was a totally different environment and pace than I was used to. For one, I did not have my scale with me (thank goodness!) which gives me constant feedback. I use it to stay on track here at home, and without it, how would I know what was what? I wasn’t super worried about it, because I knew that even if I came out of the vacation a few pounds up, I could get back to it quickly enough. Still, I was curious.

One one hand, I wouldn’t be surprised if I lost weight because:

  • I was sweating buckets every day. Without even moving.
  • I was getting SOME exercise – walking to the beach, to waterfalls and the like.
  • I was not eating a single thing between meals.
  • The meals were what I would consider very healthy – protein, beans, vegetables, a lot of fresh fruit. Our host was an amazing chef!

BUT I wouldn’t be surprised to gain weight because:

  • I wasn’t doing ANYthing near my regular workouts. At one point I ran about 4 steps and then quickly gave that up. It’s like running in a steam bath. I couldn’t deal.
  • I didn’t swim at all like I’d hoped because the ocean was, although gorgeous, brutally rough.
  • The food was incredibly delicious and I often went back for seconds.

It was really, really hard to gage where I was. I couldn’t really use my clothing as a monitor because all my summerweight clothing, I bought last year before I got to my goal weight. So it was all pretty much hanging loose on me anyway. I couldn’t tell by looking at the mirror. I really had no clue at all. And you know, normally it wouldn’t MATTER so much but I do have this WW job you know, and I didn’t want to come home and have to battle back down to my range. So I would’ve preferred to not gain a whole bunch. I felt healthy. I felt good.

One measure I was able to take was my blood sugars. In the first part of the week they continued to be up because I think I was still dehydrated. I wasn’t able to drink as much as I would’ve liked to, so it took a few days for that to stabilize, but by the end of the week I was in a good place. I have to say it gave me a small bit of comfort to be able to measure SOMEthing objectively.

One thing that I noticed was that I felt more comfortable in my body than I ever have in a hot climate. Before, when I’d gone on a beach vacation, I’d felt awful in a bathing suit, disgusting when I sweated, and extremely unfit. On this vacation, I took a 5 mile trek through the jungle (to get to the waterfall, yay) and it was like… piece of cake. I took one hike to this eco-lodge up a very very steep hill, and it was like… no problem. I felt comfortable clambering around and never got huffy puffy or anything. That felt GOOD. And sweat didn’t bother me like it used to.

I used to be one of those people who was completely sweatophobic. It made me sick. But now it’s just…. water. And it doesn’t bother me. It’s really OK. Maybe because sweat during my workouts is a good thing – a very very good thing. I’ve made friends with sweat! Yahoo!

So when I left on my vacation I was 5 lbs “down” because of my dumb dehydration problem at the marathon. I was pretty sure I wasn’t going to maintain THAT because it was mostly water weight anyway. In fact it was ALL water weight. This morning when I weighed myself I was 2 lbs up from that weight, so 3 lbs down from the day before the marathon. OK! I’ll take that! I hope I’ll be able to maintain that because it’s a number I can be very happy at.

So that’s that. Interesting, huh? It’s funny how things change when we don’t have our regular landmarks and ways of checking in. But I felt good about what I was doing overall. I’m eager to get back to my regular workouts. I’m glad it’s not 90 million degrees here. But it was also good to get out of routine and realize there are ways of staying healthy that look and feel different.

Emotional Eating in Slow-Mo

I had an Incident yesterday. I didn’t want to write about it, but my dear friend Shannon urged me to go ahead and blog it because it would help other people somehow. Okaaaaay. Deep breath.

So this is what happened. I really feel like it was one of those slow-motion train wrecks, you know? Where it slows way way way down but still it doesn’t stop. I had so many opportunities to stop it. But I didn’t.

I was in a grocery store. I got a phone call that upset me. It made me really sad. Like deep sad. And I just didn’t want to feel that way. I grabbed a package of shortbread cookies. I actually examined it and determined that each cookie is 100 calories. So, I figured, the whole box would be 800. Wow. I mean wow. I just tucked that little tidbit of information away.

I put the box in the cart and at the last minute, I ALMOST stashed it in the magazine rack before paying. That was out #1. Didn’t take it. Then I thought, I can put it in the trunk with the rest of the groceries. Nope, I took it out of the bag and sat it beside me on the passenger seat of the car. Out #2. THEN I actually sat for a minute and thought, I can Tweet someone. I can call someone. I can DM someone.  Someone will talk me down.

Then I realized, that I did not want anyone to talk me down. I wanted the cookies. Did I really believe that they would make me feel better? Less sad? I don’t know. Not really. But there was something ELSE that believed that it would help, and in that moment, just a teeny bit of pleasure for five minutes felt like it would be a little relief from the overwhelming sadness.

I didn’t call anyone. I ate the cookies. It took about five minutes, yup. They were sort of delicious but also laced with sadness and a feeling of WOW am I really in this place?

When they were gone, I took stock. It was actually a weird kind of experiment. I felt like part of me was standing over myself with a white lab coat and a clipboard, saying, “Well? Do you feel better now?”

You all know the answer to that. No, I did not feel better. All the sad feelings rushed back in. PLUS I had just eaten 800 calories of cookies. But I also did not feel the familiar self loathing of binges past. I just felt a weary kind of disappointment. Because I had pretty much been conscious through the whole episode. It wasn’t like I woke up with crumbs on my pillow. I knew what I was doing. I think I just wanted to SEE, you know? I wanted to see if it actually would help.

I think I can refer back to this post if I feel that temptation again. A reminder. It actually doesn’t help.

(in other, better news, I did my longest run (7.5 miles!) ever this morning and my Runkeeper said I burned – guess what? 800 calories.)

🙂

Back on Track


Sunrise on the train tracks

Originally uploaded by Kathy~

Well, it seems as though the worst has passed (knock knock knock on wood) and I can begin to re-focus a bit. Thanks to EVERYone who sent me/us support and encouragement. It’s been stressful and I don’t think it’s over by a long shot, but I do think I can regroup some.

Yesterday I did the first real workout in a week. It felt good. I realized that it actually felt good to do weight training (as opposed to cardio/running). It seemed to help me feel grounded somehow, grounded in my body. That was kind of interesting. Today I am going to do some more intensive cardio, on the megaflights of stairs at the cemetery (with my trainer).

Last night I led a WW meeting and my supervisor showed up. He asked me, “How’s your weight?” GULP. Um. I dunno. We are supposed to record (in the system) our weights by the 10th of each month (which is today). I was like, I can’t face this. He told me to weigh myself on each of the four scales in the center (what kind of hell is that?). Which is supposed to desensitize one from freaking out at a number. He was extremely calm and nonjudgmental and just, “Okay.”

It was a pretty eye-popping number for me. I was like, OKAY! The pity party is officially OVER. I’m no longer in Maintenance mode. I’m squarely back into LOSE mode.

Which, I have to say, is not a bad thing.

This morning I cracked open my fresh new Three-Month tracker.

Who’s with me?

Loved/Love/Hate Food

Mary over at a Merry Life and Karen at Why Weight? just answered a foodie meme question posed by Mish at Eating Journey. I am following suit, partly because I am procrastinating going for my run today (:-)).

The question is: Name five foods you used to love, now love, and still can’t stand.

Foods I Used to Love:

  • Macaroni & Cheese: I don’t care if it’s gourmet with aged cheddar and truffles, or it’s Kraft out of the box (I’m not kidding). I love ANY combo of pasta and cheese. Or I did. But it doesn’t love me back. Or isn’t so good for me. So I will still eat it, but instead of craving it like a heat-seeking missile, I will now only eat it once in a very, very blue moon. So. I still love it, but from afar.
  • Hotdogs. Again, I’m not kidding. Please don’t disown me. But I adore hotdogs, and have ever since I’ve been little. I’ve pretty much taken them out of my repertoire. I know they’re made of rat toenails and snot and dye, but I couldn’t help it. I love(d) hotdogs.
  • Kentucky Fried Chicken: I haven’t had this in over a year, and I am not going to allow myself to taste it to see if I still love it. Probably ever. It’s one of those things.
  • Snack Chips. Cheetos (my favorite), Pringles, etc. I’m done with those now. Done.
  • Cheap Packaged Cookies. Oreos, Chips Ahoy, Pecan Sandies. If I’m going to do cookies now, I want the really really good stuff.

Food I Now Love: (and presumably didn’t before)

  • Cauliflower. I am now obseessssssssed with cauliflower! I love it pureed (a la mashed potatoes), in soup, roasted, curried, ANY way (but not raw. I am not yet a raw cauliflower fan).
  • Nonfat, unflavored Greek yogurt. Fage! Oh yum! It tastes like whipped cream to me now. Really thick, perfect whipped cream.
  • Blueberries. Yum! I eat about a quart of these a week. I used to be rather “meh” about blueberries but now… cannot get enough. WITH the Greek yogurt, and also by the handful. I used to only like blueberries cooked (ha, like in MUFFINS) but now love them just plain.
  • Portobello mushrooms. Yes, they are the vegetarian’s meat. I am not a vegetarian, but I am just as (if not more) satisfied with a Portobello burger than a meat burger. I do not think I can ever travel the tempeh-seitan route, but Portobellos? YES.
  • Dark chocolate with sea salt. Dark chocolate is good for you, right? RIGHT? LOL. I never said this list was supposed to be, like, all health food. The reason I love it now and not before, is that it had not been invented before. Ha!
  • HONORABLE MENTION: Brussels Sprouts. I used to avoid these like the plague, and I do not say I LOVE them now, but I LIKE them. Especially with bacon. 🙂

Foods I Still Can’t Stand:

  • Beets. I try. I try about once a year. Slimy. Icky. No. And don’t even mention the pee.
  • Bananas. No. Never. Gross. Gag. ACK. Not in bread, not in cake or muffins, not with ice cream, not raw, not ANY FORM. NO.
  • Oatmeal. Again, I try. Often. But there’s something so… lumpy and ugh about it. Only edible with large amounts of cream, butter, brown sugar and walnuts, which I pretty much think mitigates any health value.
  • Sardines. Shudder. I’ll eat a raw tuna belly with gusto, but those little.. tiny… bony.. oily? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • Licorice. Especially black licorice. No thank you!

So… what’s on YOUR lists?

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